SPEAKER_03 0:01

The cross is the suffering love of God, bearing the guilt of man's sin, which alone is able to melt the sinner's heart and bring him to repentance for salvation. Billy Graham This is The Bright Forever The Bright Forever Hello and welcome to The Bright Forever, where each week we rediscover the power and richness of some of the greatest hymns of the faith. My name is Andy Peavyhouse, and I am your host and guide on this incredible journey through hymnody. We made it. This is the day, the last episode of season one. I said it at the very beginning of this whole adventure. I have wanted to do this for the longest time and just never quite felt I could start it and see it through. But with the help of my amazing family and all of you listening out there, we made it through 20 episodes. We've had hurricanes and holidays. We've added a new addition to our family in Gemma Noel. And it has been an awesome ride through the first season. And I can't wait to see what God has in store for us next. This week, we are celebrating what this podcast is all about. Fresh off the heels of the celebration of Christ's resurrection on Easter Sunday, we will be diving into one of the most popular hymns of all time, and one of the most widely sung Easter hymns ever. This week, we are exploring The Old Rugged Cross by George Bernard. What makes this week extra special is that we have saved the best for last. Today I talk to my mother, Janet Pivios, about this well-worn hymn and the impact it and hymns in general had on her life. But before we hear from her, let's talk about how this hymn came to be. Bernard was born in Youngstown, Ohio in 1873. His father passed away when George was just in his teens. This left young George with incredible family responsibilities. As a result, Bernard became a coal miner, as was his father before him. Later, he and his wife both worked at the Salvation Army. And then he became an itinerant pastor and singer and went around preaching and singing to congregations doing revivals. throughout the United States. Despite a difficult childhood, he was drawn to music and began playing the guitar and singing at a very early age. Bernard became a Christian in his early 20s and began working as an itinerant evangelist and musician. He traveled around the country holding revival meetings and sharing the gospel through music. It was during one of these meetings in Albion, Michigan in 1912 that that Bernard was inspired to write the old rugged cross. According to one article I was reading, Bernard was reflecting on the message of the cross during the revival meeting when he felt a powerful urge to write a song about it. As he was thinking of Christ's crucifixion, an original melody came to him quickly. Although the melody was complete, few words, came to mind. He struggled to choose the right lyrics. All that came to him were the words, I'll cherish the old rugged cross. The song took shape in bits and pieces over months as he traveled. Eventually finishing the tune back at his home, he showed it to his wife, who sang it for him and said, it was wonderful. He then sent the manuscript to his friend, Charles H. Gabriel, in Chicago. If you remember him from episode two, he is the one who wrote I Stand Amazed in the Presence. He was friends with Bernard. Bernard asked if Gabriel would write the proper chords with the melody line. Gabriel did so and returned the document with the message, You will hear from this song. And hear from it, he did. Bernard's hymn quickly became popular. It was soon being sung in churches all over the United States. This hymn was particularly popular during the Billy Sunday evangelistic campaigns in the 1910s and 1920s. It was frequently used as an invitation hymn during the altar calls. George once said of his immensely popular hymn, what many other hymn writers have said, I really didn't write it. I was merely the instrument God used. But its popularity continued to grow. In addition to its success among Christians, the old rugged cross has also been recorded by many secular artists over the years, including Elvis Presley, Johnny Cash, Loretta Lynn, Al Green, Brad Paisley, Carrie Underwood, and so many others. In Albion, Michigan, there once stood a sign that read, Birthplace of the Old Rugged Cross. The Old Rugged Cross, one of the world's best loved hymns, was composed here in 1912. by the Reverend George Bernard, 1873 to 1958. The son of an Ohio coal miner, Bernard was a lifelong servant of God, chiefly in the Methodist ministry. He wrote the words and music of over 300 other hymns. None achieved the fame of the old record cross, the moving summation of his faith. And at the bottom of the sign, it says this. I'll cherish the old rugged cross till my trophies at last I lay down. I will cling to the old rugged cross and exchange it someday for a crown. A few years ago, the sign was destroyed when there was a car accident. There's an ongoing fundraising campaign to restore the sign back to its historical location at the site where Bernard's house once stood. Though the sign has fallen, the old rugged cross still stands as a testament to the power and majesty of the cross and what it represents in the lives of those Well, I saved the best for the last episode. I got to sit down with my mom, Janet Peavyhouse, and talk to her about her life, her love of hymns, and specifically our hymn for today, The Old Rugged Cross. Enjoy. We are here with my mother, Janet Peavyhouse, and we're going to be talking about the hymn, The Old Rugged Cross. But before we get started with all of that, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and who you are, where you've been in your life, how you came to know Christ, and why are hymns so important to you?

UNKNOWN 8:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:58

Okay, let's do this one at a time. I'll just say, who are you?

SPEAKER_01 9:06

I am the mother of Matthew and Andrew Peavyhouse. That is what I am, and the wife of Steve Peavyhouse. I have been a housewife. I have served in my church as a women's ministry director. But the thing that I love the most and that gives me... the most joy is to be the wife of Steve and the mother of two wonderful boys. I came to Faith in Christ on an Easter Sunday. I really, at that time, probably did not understand everything, but it was an Easter Sunday, and it was— It was an evangelist that was at our church, and he gave the plea, and he gave it very forcefully, and he reminded us about where we were going if we did not answer it. And I guess as a young girl, maybe trying my best to understand it, my sister came up and stood beside me and took my hand and said— This is an important decision that you need to make in your life. And I'll go up there with you if you would like to make it. And I said I would. And when I got up there, we kneeled and she prayed with me. And then the pastor came over and talked to me. To be honest with you, church was my life. And so there wasn't a huge change. There wasn't a huge difference. And so... As I grew older and sin became prominent in my life, I began to doubt my salvation, and I began to worry where I was spiritually. And my pastor talked to me, and we prayed, and I decided that I would be rebaptized because I didn't even really remember my baptism at all. And so that was... a turning point for me in that it just gave me the security that I needed to have.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

Why do you love hymns so much?

SPEAKER_01 11:28

I grew up with hymns, and you know I love hymns. And you're making a joke of me, but I did. No, I'm

SPEAKER_03 11:36

not.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

I did grow up with hymns, and I love the music of hymns. I love the words of hymns. We're talking about the old rugged cross today. I love the first part of it, where it tells us that God took our sin and our shame and bore it for us. And I love that part because I think shame is something very hard to hand over to our Heavenly Father and let Him take care of in our life. I grew up with sent hands. My grandmother was a seamstress, and she sat at the sewing machine and whistled a hymn all day long. You could hear her. And the old rugged cross was one of the ones that she whistled. You

SPEAKER_03 12:23

mentioned in that first verse, on a hill far away stood an old rugged cross, the emblem of suffering

SPEAKER_01 12:29

and shame. And Christ bore our shame. And shame is a very hard thing sometimes to get rid of, especially for women. And so the hymn has always struck me as the things that are the heaviest in my life to lay down before Christ. That hymn talks about it at the cross. And I just think it encompasses everything about who Christ was for us. And I love it. I love the words of it all the way through.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

The thing it brings to mind, and you had mentioned this before you even started recording, the idea that Christ is on the cross in the most... humiliating,

SPEAKER_01 13:16

shameful way. Yes, and we don't see that. That's not something that we see. But if we go and read about what crucifixion was, we know that He bore our sins on that cross totally without any clothes on, totally burying Himself. And that's hard. I mean, I can't even imagine what that must have been for Him. And So I just, I love it. I love the words of the song. I love the reframe. All of it is just a beautiful song. And it was sung every single Easter of my life. And Easter morning was the morning that you jumped out of bed and you I would run and ask daddy if I could get the newspaper, not because we wanted to see the baseball scores of the Yankees, but because the front page said he is risen of the newspaper. And for me, that solidified a lot of things because the Tampa Tribune was telling us that Jesus had risen. The Sanford paper, where I grew up for 10 years, was telling us that Jesus has risen. It validated who he was, which today we have none of that. I mean, it wouldn't dare put that on the front of a newspaper today. But it's just a, it was a symbol back, it was the 50s. It was a symbol back then that we were a country and a nation that loved our Savior. And so that was just great. Yeah, there was Easter eggs and your dress and all of that, but there was still a really strong understanding of that that cross meant everything.

SPEAKER_03 15:15

That kind of brings us to the second verse. And I want to ask you this says, Oh, that old rugged cross. So despised by the world. And you were just talking about how right now, I mean, we, we live in a world right now that despises the cross. Um, Because it takes the control away from us and puts it all on God. We can't save ourselves. We can't make ourselves any better. The only person that can do that is the perfect person that lived the perfect life and died in our place. And it says, has a wondrous attraction to me. What is so attractive to you about the cross?

UNKNOWN 15:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Oh, goodness gracious, a million different things. In a Christian's life, it's a symbol of everything that Christ did for us. Now, I don't want him to remain there. I want him to have an empty cross because that is the victory and the glory of what he did for us. And it's just a perfect symbol. And I think it will always be a very strong symbol for Christians, for those who are believers.

SPEAKER_03 16:32

You said that the cross is that symbol. And in verse three, it says, in that old rugged cross stained with blood so divine, a wondrous beauty I see. For it was on that old cross, Jesus suffered and died to pardon and sanctify me. The symbol of our pardon, of our sanctification, what makes us more like Christ. The way that we become more like Christ is through the cross, through bearing our own cross. And even Jesus says, if you want to follow me, you have to take up your cross. You have to deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me. And that the cross for the Christian is such a symbol of everything that that we have to die to ourselves in order for us to be raised to have defeated sin in our life. The cross has to, we have to have died to ourselves. We have to take that cross and we have to take that symbol of the pardon and the sanctification that Christ bought for us on the cross. And that has to become real in our own lives.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

I would say, and you put it perfectly, but in Jesus' ministry, he was telling the disciples to take up their cross, and they really didn't know what he was talking about at that time. And because, yes, they knew what crosses were. This was the form of death for the Roman Empire. And so they knew what that was, but to take that picture of death And to be able to put it in so that they understood it, they probably did not understand it until he died.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

Well, and they didn't understand it at all because they still believed

SPEAKER_01 18:33

he

SPEAKER_03 18:33

was the Messiah that was going to conquer Rome. Not that he was going to conquer sin and conquer what was on the inside. The disciples still thought he was going to take the Jewish state and it was going to become great... this great kingdom. And that was, that was why, um, James and John were asking, Hey, when you, when, when, when your kingdom is here, can we be

SPEAKER_02 19:02

on your right and your left?

SPEAKER_03 19:03

And he goes, you don't know what you're asking because at the time they, they had no concept. What, what you're asking is, is to bear the cup that I bear. And you don't understand what you're asking for.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

And take up that cross daily and follow me. And so it must have, I think it probably began to really sink into them when the cross, when he died on the cross. His death and his resurrection changed everything for them. But the The symbol of the cross and what Christ did for us is something that when we take it up every day, we need to remember what he did for us. And the... the shame and the suffering that he went through. And I love that verse, the line that you were talking to,"'Tis that old rugged cross, Jesus suffered and died." And I don't think we think about that enough. And I remember you telling me last week that you were showing your kids when you told me that they were watching The Passion of the Christ and that they almost didn't like it because of the... the brutalness of it. And I think the man who produced it did a brilliant job of showing that because we don't want to watch that part of it. We don't want to see it. We don't want to know that that happened. And we especially don't want fingers pointed at us saying we're the one that put him there. Yeah. That

SPEAKER_03 20:50

even if my sin was the only sin... Mm-hmm. in order to eradicate that sin, Christ had to do it. He had

SPEAKER_01 21:01

to

SPEAKER_03 21:01

do it. Because I wouldn't have been able to do it myself.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Yes, and it makes you wonder when he walked through towns where they were crucifying people, what he must have thought, because he knew what was coming. And he knew at the perfect time that it was finished. He knew when God had taken all his wrath of all the sin of all of us, he knew it was finished. And And he closed his eyes and died.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

And that's one of the reasons why I show the passion of the Christ to my students. Because if you really watch that and realize that your sin, whether you think it is small and minuscule or not, that's what it did. That's what it did to accomplish your salvation. That had to be done so that it didn't have to be done to you.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

Because you deserve that. You deserved all of God's wrath poured on you, but Jesus took it instead.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Yeah, God poured every bit of His wrath onto Jesus, and it changed us in the process. And He had to. There wasn't any other way to do it but for that death to happen. And He hung on that cross, and He was covering all our sins. I mean, just think, our pastor said Friday at the... Good Friday service, he said, just think of all those sins. I mean, all of those sins. And just think of your own life and what the sin is in your life. And I just, I began to really concentrate on that and think, how does he even have anything to do with me? But praise God, he does. Because he, when God looks on me, He sees Jesus. And that's a beautiful thought.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

And it reminds me of a book called, I believe it's called Future Grace by John Piper, where he talks about, he didn't just die for the sins of our past. He died for the sins we're committing right now. And he died for our sins that we're going through That are in

SPEAKER_01 23:33

the future.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

Yeah, this idea that Christ gives us future grace for our sins. And this idea of... if it weren't for that, sanctification would not be possible. We'd have to accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior every day and just re-accept it and re-accept it and re-accept it over and over again, having to almost kind of like in Old Testament times, having to sacrifice a lamb every time you wanted... the remission of sin and you wanted forgiveness for sin, you had to sacrifice. And it was just over and over and over again. And he says, no, no, no. What Jesus did on the cross paid for the sins of the past, the sins of the present, and the sins that you have yet to actually do. Yeah. Because God wants to sanctify you. And I love that verse because it talks about on the old rugged cross, Jesus suffered and died to pardon and to sanctify. It wasn't just to forgive us our sins. It wasn't just to pardon us, which we tend to focus on that we're pardoned, which is wonderful. It's great. But it's also to make us more like him.

UNKNOWN 24:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

And the cross is there to make us more like Jesus. We have to take up that cross. Instead of having to accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior every single day, we just have to preach the gospel to ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

And remember, unlike the... Israelites in the Old Testament, we have the wonderful gift upon salvation of the Holy Spirit. And He works that sanctification in us every single day. Now, sometimes we turn around and refuse it and don't follow, but He builds it into our life every day as He helps us to focus on who Christ is. This is a daily thing. This is ongoing. And the gift of the Holy Spirit is the wonderful part that happens or that happened after Christ's death that helps to sanctify us. And we don't have to do that lamb. All the time. We don't have to sacrifice and do all that is called for in the Old Testament any longer because of that. We are free from that.

SPEAKER_03 25:59

Because Christ is

SPEAKER_01 26:00

our Lamb. Because Christ is the Lamb. What did John say? This is the Lamb that takes away the sin of the world. And made a huge statement in the beginning of Jesus' ministry.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

Really good. The last part of that last verse says, then he'll call me someday to my home far away where his glory forever I'll share. The fact that the God of the universe shares his glory with us.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Yeah. Is... I don't even think we can begin to understand what that means, really what that means. I love that last verse, because I'm closer to home far away. I'm a little closer than you are. I try to remind you and Matthew of that as much as I possibly can, that your mother is getting old, but you do begin to think more of your heavenly home. When I was your age at 46, I was busy raising children and You know, keeping care of a home. And I didn't think that much about death and dying, but I'm a lot closer to it now. And I think much more about where my home really is. And my home is with Him. And the fact that He wants to share His glory with me, I just cannot even imagine. I cannot imagine.

UNKNOWN 27:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:40

It's pretty amazing that the God of the universe wants to share eternity. It's not like he's doing it begrudgingly. Like, oh, well, I guess. Since you accepted my son, I guess I'll let you in.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

But he's doing it gladly. He's

SPEAKER_03 27:57

doing it gladly,

SPEAKER_01 27:58

yeah. He wants it. And so it will... And then to actually... see His face, be in His presence, that I will know the Holy Spirit, that I will understand who He really is. It's just amazing. And I'm closer to it than you are. But I may not be, but if things go as they should, Daddy and I are closer to it than you are.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

Well, on that note... Thank you for being on this podcast. Thank you for talking to us. I loved having you on, even though you were very much not sure. Just so I know, did you have fun?

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Yes, I had fun. Was it good? Yeah, I'll tell you when it comes out on Tuesday how much fun it was. But yeah, it is. And I am... You need to just close your ears right now and not listen to this. But I am very proud of you. Very, very proud of you and what you have produced over the last 18 podcasts. It has been a blessing to me. And if I didn't know the struggle you had with speaking without stuttering— You and I and Daddy have walked through that for, how old are you? 44? 44. We have walked through that for 44 years with you. And to see you doing a radio program and doing it to the glory of God is something that blesses your mom's heart every day. And don't laugh. It really does.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

And thank you for coming on the podcast. We are going to have you back.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

We are. Can I pick my song?

SPEAKER_03 29:57

Yes. I think

SPEAKER_01 29:59

you already... I have several in mind. I'll have to... I

SPEAKER_03 30:02

think you already have. I mention this every week to... to anybody who's listening that if they have suggestions, just so anybody out there knows, my mother has given so many suggestions.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

I have all of them. He has yet to really hit the one I want, but I'm working on him. But this one was a wonderful one. It brings back a lot of wonderful memories in my life, and I love to hear it sung. I love to hear it sung. It's a blessing.

SPEAKER_03 30:35

Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_03 30:43

Thank you again to my mom for sitting down and talking with me and sharing about this amazing hymn. I can't wait to have you back on again. And yes, I will let you choose whatever hymn you want next time. So we had the whole family over for Easter at my mom and dad's house. This past weekend. And I took the opportunity to surprise them and record us singing the old rugged cross around the table. Now, before you all out there start thinking that we're just this amazingly super spiritual family that sings hymns around the dinner table whenever we come together, we're not. As a matter of fact, many of my family looked at me very strangely when I asked them to do this. But here it is in all its glory. My family gathered around the dinner table on Sunday singing the old rugged cross. On a hill far away stood an old rugged cross, the emblem of suffering and shame. And I love that old cross where the dearest and best For a world of lost sinners was slain. So I'll cherish the old rugged cross. Till my trouble at last I lay down I will cling to the old rugged cross and exchange it someday for old rugged cross I will ever be true its shame and reproach gladly bear then he'll call me someday to my home far Glory forever I'll share So I'll cherish the old rugged cross it someday for a crowd getting to sing with my whole family and everyone who was there with us on Easter Sunday was great and I loved it I love singing with them it took a few hundred takes but without any practice I thought we did a pretty good job and That brings us to a very bittersweet ending to the season for me. I want you to know I've had a blast doing this. It's kind of been therapeutic for me in a way. I don't know what to say, really. Which is weird for somebody who's never speechless. I love doing this. And I've had a blast doing it. And I want to thank you for listening. And I want to leave you with this question. And it goes back to the hymn that we've been talking about all day. Do you cherish the cross? Do you cherish the cross? That's the question I have to ask. And I don't know the answer for you. But do you cherish the cross? I do know this. You can never do enough to pay God back for it. And you could never in a million years do enough to save yourself. It can't be done. The standard is perfection and you're never going to meet it. There's only one who did and he gave his life on the cross. And then three days later, defeated death, defeated hell and defeated the power of sin and the hold and the chains of sin on our lives. Only one man ever did it. And his name is Jesus. I want to play something for you. I've seen all over the internet in the last few weeks on Facebook, on YouTube, Twitter, TikTok, Instagram. I've seen it everywhere. It's a pastor by the name of Alistair Begg. Talking about the cross and the man on the middle cross said I could come. Listen.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Without the preaching of the cross, without preaching the cross to ourselves all day and every day, we will very, very quickly revert to faith plus works as the ground of our salvation. So that to go to the old Fort Lauderdale question, if you were to die tonight and you were getting entry into heaven, what would you say? If you answer that, and if I answer it in the first person, we've immediately gone wrong. Because I—because I believed— Because I have faith. Because I am this. Because I am continuing. Loved ones, the only proper answer's in the third person. Because he. Because he. Think about the thief on the cross. And what an immense—I can't wait to find that fellow one day to ask him, how did that shake out for you? Because you were cussing the guy out with your friend, You've never been in a Bible study. You never got baptized. You didn't know a thing about church membership. And yet, you made it. You made it. How did you make it? That's what the angel must have said. You know, like, what are you doing here? Well, I don't know. What do you mean you don't know? Well, because I don't know. Well, you know, what's that? Excuse me, let me get my supervisor. I'll get the supervisor range. So, just a few questions for you. First of all, are you clear on the doctrine of justification by faith? The guy said, I've never heard of it in my life. And what about—let's just go to the doctrine of Scripture immediately. This guy's just staring. And eventually, in frustration, he says, On what basis are you here? And he said, The man on the middle cross said, I can come. Now, that is the only answer. That is the only answer. And if I don't preach the gospel to myself all day and every day, then I will find myself beginning to trust myself, trust my experience, which is part of my fallenness as a man. If I take my eyes off the cross… I can then give only lip service to its efficacy, while at the same time living as if my salvation depends upon me. And as soon as you go there, it will lead you either to abject despair or a horrible kind of arrogance. And it is only the cross of Christ that deals both with the dreadful depths of despair and the pretentious arrogance of the pride of man that says, You know, I can figure this out, and I'm doing wonderfully well. No, because the sinless Savior died, my sinful soul is counted free, for God the just is satisfied to look on That's why Luther says most of your Christian life is outside of you. In this sense, that we know that we're not saved by good works. We're not saved as a result of our professions, but we're saved as a result of what Christ has achieved.

SPEAKER_03 41:29

I want to leave you with this today. Are you preaching the gospel to yourself? Between now and when we come back, are you preaching the gospel to yourself every day? Are you reminding yourself daily of the power of the cross? Are you reminding yourself of the fact that you can't do this thing that we call life on your own? It's only through Jesus. We can find the peace, the hope, the love, the acceptance, the belonging that we are looking for. Do you cherish the cross? Thank you for listening to this podcast. Thank you for an amazing first season. I cannot wait to be back here with you next season. We've got some amazing things planned. We're already working on some of the hymns that we're going to be talking about. We're already recording some of the audio. We've already got some other ideas in the works and other things. We've got interviews planned and I cannot wait to be back here with each and every one of you. In the meantime, go back and listen to the season all over again. Listen to season one again. Share it. Tell people about it. I'm excited for what God has planned for the future of this podcast, for the future in my girls' lives, in the future in my family, and in your family. Again, thank you for listening. As always, Take a minute, subscribe, follow this podcast through Apple or Spotify or whatever platform you can find it on. You can always take our RSS feed and plug it into whatever podcast app you particularly care to use and you can find us that way. You can also find us on our website at www.thebrightforever.com. And of course, we want to hear from you. Let us know what you have thought of this first season. Give us suggestions for next season. Your comments, your stories, prayer requests, anything you want to tell us about. You can send those comments to podcast at thebrightforever.com. Again, that's podcast at thebrightforever.com. As we close out this season, let me leave you with the benediction we've done before. May the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord make his face to shine on you and be gracious to you. May he turn his face towards you and give you peace. Thank you for a great start. We love you all. Have a great week. And we'll see you back here next season. We're out.

UNKNOWN 45:17

Bye.